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Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:15 am
by PhillipThorne
In order, Earth has the misfortune to encounter:

* Circa 2190, the Gamilons, located in the Large Magellanic Cloud.
* (Plus, in 2199, Beemera/Beeland and Iscandar.)
* 2200, the White Comet Empire, arriving from outside our galaxy.
* (Plus the recently dead civilization of Telezart.)
* 2201, the Black Nebula Empire ("The New Voyage" and "Be Forever Yamato"), from the Virgo Cluster.
* 2203, the Galmans and the Bolar Federation.
* (Plus the not-so-recently mostly-dead Shalbart/Gardiana and the intelligent planet Phantom.)
* 2205, the Dinguil ("Final Yamato") and the intelligent planet Aquarius.
* 2225, the Great Urup Interstellar Alliance, consisting of 10 powers including the Amare, Beidel, Ethos, Fridei and SUS.

No, there's nothing odd about this if you remember the galaxy is 100,000 light-years wide and contains 400 billion stars ... except maps were shown in the early stories that showed the Galmans and Bolar pretty much carved the place up. (At least ISTR as much. Can anyone corroborate my recall?) Where did everybody else squeeze? Unless the maps were over-reaching by those powers; they claimed the areas, but hadn't properly explored them. (A lot of visual SF doesn't properly acknowledge how big a galaxy is. Travel a thousand light-years by lunch? There's nowhere to hide!)

More importantly IMHO, there's a dramatic problem. "Ho-hum, we disposed of this adversary in one story. What? There's demand for a sequel? We'll have to create a bigger and badder enemy, with a completely new ship aesthetic." Dessler got several encores, and the Black Nebula Empire appeared in successive movies, but that's it for recycling. By contrast, in Star Wars, the Timothy Zahn etc. novels had remnants of the First Galactic Empire -- plenty of leftover Grand Moffs and Grand Admirals to scheme against the heroes.

(My dates are probably skewed. How is it that, among all the production timelines on OurStarblazers.com, there isn't one for in-camera continuity?) See also the three "History of the Star Blazers Galaxy" articles, per the work of Bruce Lewis in the mid-1990s.

Re: Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:17 am
by Ithekro
There is the possibility that what we saw in Resurrection was the broken up parts of the Bolar Federation and/or the Galman Empire. We know the Bolar has at least two species in it as there were the regular Bolar we'd see in the later part of the series, and then there were the green skinned people from Berth (who could have been the remains of a Comet Empire colony or something). Things went badly for those civilizations in Final Yamato with whatever it was that happened at the very start of that film. Planets blowing up, smashing together. Nasty stuff. For all we know the ones calling the shots of the SUS could have even been from that other galaxy/universe that crossed the center of the Milky Way for no reason in Final Yamato.

Re: Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:18 am
by August Ragone
It is also possible that all the humanoids, including humans, came from the same root race.

Re: Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:45 am
by Ithekro
Well there is very good evidence of that.

1. Gamilas pilot had human DNA according to Doctor Sado. Save with blue skin.

2. Comet Empire pilot had human DNA, just with green skin...also according to Doctor Sado.

3. Humans and Iscandarian can breed. (Though we don't know if such offspring can breed themselves)

4. Nebulans say they were basically human before becoming cyborgs.

5. Berth Captain Ram was able to consume human food without any known ill effects (Seems like the Life Sciences Department was checking on things).

6. Dinguil were human, or at least were from Earth originally.

7. Aquarius suggests that it seeded life on worlds it past along with the water.

Having so man species that have human DNA would be something if there was a way to explain their skin color and in some cases blood color. Sure humans have a variaty of skin tones, but how does one get a natural blue color or green color? Different natural chemicals in their enviroment that effect them in some ways, but leave their DNA as "human"?


There were races that were non-human, but all save the Bee People were mostly standard human or near-human. The Bee People were humanoid. The SUS people seemed to be humanoid rather than human, as did some of their allied races. But almost all the races in the run from 1974-83 were more or less human.

Re: Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:48 am
by Todd S
Blue skin and Green Skin humanoids seems to be an anime trend. Robotech and Voltron did the same thing with their bad guys. I think the creators of Yamato wanted to make a statement about war and race, the same way the war in the Pacific was fueled by racism on both sides.

Re: Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:53 pm
by DanGeorge
Ithekro wrote:Well there is very good evidence of that.

1. Gamilas pilot had human DNA according to Doctor Sado. Save with blue skin.

2. Comet Empire pilot had human DNA, just with green skin...also according to Doctor Sado.

3. Humans and Iscandarian can breed. (Though we don't know if such offspring can breed themselves)

4. Nebulans say they were basically human before becoming cyborgs.

5. Berth Captain Ram was able to consume human food without any known ill effects (Seems like the Life Sciences Department was checking on things).

6. Dinguil were human, or at least were from Earth originally.

7. Aquarius suggests that it seeded life on worlds it past along with the water.



8. Starsha and Mamoru had a kid together. 'Nuff said.

Re: Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:02 pm
by Tim Eldred
How is it that, among all the production timelines on OurStarblazers.com, there isn't one for in-camera continuity?) See also the three "History of the Star Blazers Galaxy" articles, per the work of Bruce Lewis in the mid-1990s.


There's plenty of timeline information to be found, but it's spread around. The episode and movie commentaries all touch upon calendar dates when appropriate, and there's some info to be found here:

http://ourstarblazers.com/vault/625/

The problem is that the details don't always line up with one another, so it's very difficult to assemble a single correct timeline.

Re: Why are there so many local humanoid empires?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:07 pm
by August Ragone
Todd S wrote:Blue skin and Green Skin humanoids seems to be an anime trend. Robotech and Voltron did the same thing with their bad guys. I think the creators of Yamato wanted to make a statement about war and race, the same way the war in the Pacific was fueled by racism on both sides.


STAR TREK did it first; Andorians = Blue and Orians = Green. Plus, there are only so many color options available to animators... In the words of Scotty, "Now, drink 'yer drink." :mrgreen: