Battleship Yamato (BBY-01)

Discuss Space Battleship Yamato 2199 plot, episodes, characters, and mecha here. ***Spoilers***
Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:57 am

  • This is a topic about the battleship known as Yamato completed in 2199 for the United Nations Cosmo Forces. This battleship was so large and filled with so much new technology that she has a new registy number type: BBY-01. Older battleships have BBS, but Yamato is something new.

    Fitted with an Iscandarian wave motion engine, Yamato allows the humans to make the 168.000 light year voyage to Iscandar. In addition the ship is fitted with the latest advancements in human technology and adopted Iscandarian based technology. From the OMCS to the wave motion gun, Yamato has it all.
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    Ithekro
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Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:06 pm

  • This was one of the earliest departures from the original storyline, and the most important from the perspective of realism: that instead of getting the plans, building the engine, and launching in the space of a few days, they moved the critical event to be the arrival of the wave core catalyst for the engine, with Yurisha's arrival a year earlier with the Wave Motion Engine plans giving the time to build both the Yamato and her engine.
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    DanGeorge
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Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:55 pm

  • To be fair to Original Yamato, we really don't know how much time passes from when the plans arrive until launch. It SEEMS a few days but that could be 'time compression' in the storytelling at work.

    OTOH, they did have existing highly sophisticated computer design/fabrication/manufacturing (aka 'dynamic do-all'), so maybe 'a couple of days' isn't so unrealistic after all, eh? :)

    (they also had gravity control and reactionless drive tech, so the WME was mainly for the incredible energy output and warp ability)

    OK, brings up an interesting concern.

    We see in Yamato 2199 that Iscandar supplied the Wave Motion Engine Core. There are several attempts made by Gamilas to seize that Core. Makes sense, for without it the Yamato is just a dead husk.

    Can Earth DUPLICATE that Core? Was there enough time to do the kind of deep scan that would allow for replication? Obviously they wouldn't take it apart to see how it works, because that might have damaged it, so off to the Yamato and slap that puppy into place, but what if as yet another 'failsafe' there's something about Iscandar tech that is beyond what Earth can manufacture?

    Implication: Yamato is the only warp-capable ship. Mankind is forever trapped in the Solar System. This thought makes me more than a little uncomfortable.

    Of course there are possible solutions. Earth may go on a scavenger hunt for damaged Gamilas ships to retrieve their Cores (but, what if Gamilas is a completely different-yet-similar tech, not compatible with Iscandar WME design?), it could be the 'Cosmo Reversal' system contains a 'key code' that allows Cores to be made, or Yamato will be tasked to return to Iscandar for the tech or a machine to manufacture or some such.

    I'm not even going to touch the whole issue of 'soul power' in regards to the Cosmo Reversal device. :)
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Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:12 pm

  • Warp capability must have been duplicated, or Earth wouldn't have made it to Alpha Centauri in Series 3. (Or, for that matter, from one outer planet to another in time to face off against the Comet Empire. Must have happened off-camera.) Plus, assuming the Wave-Motion Gun is an "offshoot" (ouch) from the WME, it must be standard in the Series 2 Earth fleet.
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    Tim Eldred
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Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:19 pm

  • Tim Eldred wrote:Warp capability must have been duplicated, or Earth wouldn't have made it to Alpha Centauri in Series 3. (Or, for that matter, from one outer planet to another in time to face off against the Comet Empire. Must have happened off-camera.) Plus, assuming the Wave-Motion Gun is an "offshoot" (ouch) from the WME, it must be standard in the Series 2 Earth fleet.


    Well, yes, of course, but that's Original Yamato.

    Original Yamato, they had complete plans for WMn Engines*, no spark plug required. My assumption was always that as soon as the Gamilas Base on Pluto was destroyed and the Planet Bombs stopped the EDC embarked on a crash program to build up a fleet with WMn power, which clearly gave their cannons the 'punch' to blow up Gamilas ships. Blah blah blah. :)

    Yamato 2199 handles all that differently.

    *Note: I'm trying to create a new acronym that distinguishes between the Wave Motion Engine (WME) and simply Wave Motion Energy (WMn)
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Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:47 pm

  • After Yamato returns to Earth they will have at least two wave motion cores. The one given to them that is used for Yamato, and the one found on what we use to call Beeland. This gives them a core they can reverse engineer if they have to do so. It is also possible that it is a slighty outdated model as it is several hundred years old. This would give Yamato the most powerful, or perhaps efficient core in the fleet.

    Perhaps they threaten to remove this core to install it in Andromeda.

    The likelihood is that with the knowledge gained on the voyage to Iscandar and back and any time spent after Yamato returns will see Earth able to dupicate at least in some way the Iscandarian wave motion core for their new engines.

    But when it comes to the timeline, Yamato 3/Final Yamato is all over the place. While Earth would need wave motion engines to get to Aplha Centauri by series 3 and have wave motion guns by series 2, the question comes up about the pioneers on Barnard's Star? If the time line is 2205 for Yamato 3, those people took off either while Yamato was on its mission to Iscandar, or just after it came back to Earth. But if Final Yamato and 2203 is the correct answer to the question "what year is it?" than these people arrived at Barnard's Star in 2198. The year before Yamato was completed.

    That should not be possible unless one of two things happened.

    One: Earth commissioned prototype wave motion engine designs with weaker power systems (based on either captured Gamilon tech or if in Yamato 2199, Yurisha's plans).

    Two: Earth did have another type of faster-than-light drive system in use prior to 2199 and the introduction of wave motion technology. There are some scientific options for that that aren't entirely science fiction. Something like the proposed Alcubierre drive, which is a more plausible version of the 1980s style Star Trek warp drive. Something like this is suggested to maybe be able to move at 10 times the speed of light. Certainly not fast enough to reach Iscandar, but good enough to reach Barnard's Star is a reasonable period of time. Such a drive would use a ring of some sort and the ship the pioneers had did have a ring at the base. Such a drive system would be advanced by Earth standards, but the drive ring would be horribly exposed to weapons fire, and thus probably easy killing for Gamilon warships. Though warp flight in the solar system would provide at least some level of advantage if controllable verses the Gamilon wave motion engines. It is a thought to fix something without entirely breaking the rest of the story.

    (Third option is a sleeper ship, but that did not see like how they described their voyage.)
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    Ithekro
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:55 pm

  • Tim Eldred wrote:Warp capability must have been duplicated, or Earth wouldn't have made it to Alpha Centauri in Series 3. (Or, for that matter, from one outer planet to another in time to face off against the Comet Empire. Must have happened off-camera.) Plus, assuming the Wave-Motion Gun is an "offshoot" (ouch) from the WME, it must be standard in the Series 2 Earth fleet.


    There's nothing to suggest that warp capability wasn't duplicated in the original Yamato continuity. The fact that the wreck of the Arizona was found light-years out of the solar system only in 2203 is proof positive of that.

    In 2199, it comes down to what exactly is the Wave Motion Core, and what does it do/contain?

    After rewatching the relevant sections of Episodes 2, 16, and 17, I've come to the following observations:

    (1) Starsha refers to it verbatim as the engine's "Activation Unit". "Hado-core" is a term the Yamato's crew has coined for the object given what its purpose is.

    (2) There is nothing to suggest exactly what the core does to activate the engine. It's clear that it doesn't provide energy to ignite the engine (hence why it required a huge amount of electricity for the engine's activation from around the world). From that we can assume that it's either something that provides a kick to the engine once it is fuelled with sufficient electricity to turn over (akin to a sparkplug), or it is merely a control system (i.e. CPU/computer) to regulate the engine.

    (3) The core on Beemela is at most a computer, and at least a data storage device. All it has been proven to contain is information pertaining to the subspace gate system.

    Between points (2) and (3), an argument could be made in favour of Hado Cores being nothing more than hand-held size supercomputers with specific purposes - the one brought to Earth by Sasha to activate the Wave Motion Engine and regulate its energy (with fine-tuning provided by Tokugawa's team), and the one on Beemela storing information on the subspace gate system.

    If this is the case, then reverse engineering them becomes a more viable proposition for building the EDF ships with Wave Motion Engines, warp capability, and Wave Motion Guns.

    Ithekro wrote:It is also possible that it is a slighty outdated model as it is several hundred years old.


    There's also the possiblity that it's no less advanced than the Yamato's Activation Unit. Remember there is such a thing as a technological plateau; the expanded Star Wars universe has shown that technology has not advanced much in the last four thousand years in that universe (in the games Knights of the Old Republic and Star Wars: The Old Republic, lightsabers are no different then to the movie canon, and FTL travel already existed). That Iscandarian technology hasn't evolved any further in half a millennium is not unrealistic for a world that has FTL travel, especially when you consider Iscandar's population save for the three sisters died out at some point in the past.
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:57 pm

  • I think it's important to understand that Iscandarian technology appears to be much more advanced than Earth. Given the whole thing with the Cosmo Reversal system (no spoilers, just an overall 'it's maybe a little weird if not honestly creepy') and some of the implications of the 'Auto Nav' system (which I think needs more careful translation), it may well be the WMn Core is not just a PHYSICAL component.

    And again, let us not conflate what happens with the Classic Yamato saga with the Yamato 2199 future. With 2199 the future is completely unwritten, but some events seem predestined. The Iscandar tech was MUCH closer to what Earth had in Original Yamato.

    Iscandar 2199 is a completely different critter.

    Are we green? :)
    Last edited by Steve H on Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:24 am

  • There was a lot of organic technology in the early parts of the original series for Gamilas while Iscandar was largely crystal technology by the time Yamato arrived. The old Earth ships were supposedly built from reverse engineering the Gamilas ships in the original, though that was never stated. In Yamato 2199 it is clear in the background notes that the Earth ships used at Pluto are old. 2170s old. Long before First Contact with Gamilas. Though it is also stated that they improved the fleet as the war progressed. The ships built in the 2170s would look a bit different than how they looked n 2199.

    Yamato gains the advantages of being built after years of war and te aquisition of alien technology. Yamato has been given thick armor plating to survive attacks by Gamilas ships. While most Earth ships exploded when hit by Gamilas weapons, Kirishama was able to take a few hits with weapons that were seen to be able to destroy a similarly sized Gamilas cruiser. Add more armor and Yamato suvives a lot of pounding even when the wave motion shielding is down. Another innovation is their missiles and torpedoes. These were used on Yukikaze to great effect. I would assume the Fusion Shells were also an Earth weapon that just wasn't on the older ships of the UNCN. It is unclear if that is a result of Iscandarian technology, or just something that was on newer Earth ships, just that they had been destroyed by 2199.

    Add the Wave Motion Energy and Yamato gains FTL capability, high powered energy weapons that are more capable than most of the Gamilas weapons, shields for added protection, a gravity system and inertial compensator, and the Wave Motion Gun (which they were not suppose to make for reasons).

    What was Earth tech and what was Iscandarian tech? What was captured Gamilas tech?

    The background notes suggest the Cosmo Zero has a barrier system designed to protect the other fighters it the squadron, but we never saw that used to our knowledge. The Cosmo Falcon was refitted for carrier duty, but would likely have been around for a little while and seen combat before 2199, so it likely isn't Iscandarian tech.
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    Ithekro
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Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:45 pm

  • Ithekro wrote:That should not be possible unless one of two things happened.

    One: Earth commissioned prototype wave motion engine designs with weaker power systems (based on either captured Gamilon tech or if in Yamato 2199, Yurisha's plans).

    Two: Earth did have another type of faster-than-light drive system in use prior to 2199 and the introduction of wave motion technology. There are some scientific options for that that aren't entirely science fiction. Something like the proposed Alcubierre drive, which is a more plausible version of the 1980s style Star Trek warp drive. Something like this is suggested to maybe be able to move at 10 times the speed of light. Certainly not fast enough to reach Iscandar, but good enough to reach Barnard's Star is a reasonable period of time. Such a drive would use a ring of some sort and the ship the pioneers had did have a ring at the base. Such a drive system would be advanced by Earth standards, but the drive ring would be horribly exposed to weapons fire, and thus probably easy killing for Gamilon warships. Though warp flight in the solar system would provide at least some level of advantage if controllable verses the Gamilon wave motion engines. It is a thought to fix something without entirely breaking the rest of the story.

    (Third option is a sleeper ship, but that did not see like how they described their voyage.)


    Plus it would make sense seeing as the original idea prior to Iscandar helping was to send a a ship to escape the solar system and find a new planet for humans to live on, as doing that at slower than light speeds isn't very feesible.
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