Interview by Tim Eldred, December 2024
Rhythm Bhattacharje [Batta-char-jay] is living the dream. He fell in love with classic Yamato and launched an animation career that brought him right into the eye of the storm. What’s more, he did it without living in Japan, without speaking Japanese, and without a long track record of industry experience. How does this happen?
When he contacted me via Instagram and told me what he was up to, I had to learn the answer to that question. When I landed this interview with him, I learned that and a lot more. And now you can learn it too!
The first thing I’d like to know is something about your history. We’ll get to Yamato stuff later, but I’m very interested to know your background. I come from the animation world myself, so it’s always fascinating to me to know how people got there.
My background isn’t really rooted in animation. I grew up loving animation, don’t get me wrong, I was four or five when Naruto first came to Cartoon Network and that obviously shifted my brain. There was a very famous cut from the great Norio Matsumoto, it was Sasuke vs. Orochimaru. I’m not familiar what episode it was, but it was pretty early on and it became iconic. From there I remember thinking it was really weird and I was laughing at the freeze frames of how a character’s neck would contort and snap. Looking back, I’m like, wow, I don’t even realize how genius it was as a kid. So that stuff was really interesting.
After that I became a photographer in the music industry when I was about 15 or 16. I’m 23 now and I did that for many years. I worked with artists like Lil Uzi Vert and Pharrell Williams. I did freelance for them, took concert photos, things of that nature. I really loved film and I loved everything visual. At a certain point, my world started to converge when this artist that I’d worked with here and there, Lil Uzi Vert, started incorporating more anime stuff into his work because he loves that stuff. He wanted to do promotional material with that.
I thought to myself, I’m surprised I never tried anything like this because I do find it fascinating and I’m huge on direction. I love art house movies. That’s one of my biggest passions. I watch a movie a day. And it got to the point where someone told me, you should just try to learn how to draw. And I’m like, I’m 21. I think it’s a little late to pick up a new skill. But it’s never too late. Just try it. And lo and behold, two years later…
This is my first official placement, but I’ve done jobs before, some uncredited. I’m not sure how much I’m allowed to speak on those, but this technically my fourth or fifth job. But this is the one I’m really proud of, because Yamato holds a special place in my heart. That’s that’s pretty much how I got here. I remember getting into the animation industry, it was really close-minded. I learned how to draw and animate with the specific goal of getting into anime, which I don’t think I would recommend to other people, but you can cater your skills in that direction and it kind of filters you away from doing anything else. But I’m very grateful.
Here’s the really big question: you are located NOT in Japan, but in the eastern seaboard of U .S. and yet you are working for an anime company based in Tokyo. How does that happen? What’s the actual mechanism that gets you that job connection?
It is very very very interesting how the animation industry in Japan works at this point. Honestly, your best bet if you want a job in anime is to post high-quality good animations on Twitter and reach out to a lot of Japanese anime producers there, because that’s where a lot of them are. It’s really unorthodox. And even more unorthodox is the way that I got onto Yamato. I went to Japan not too long ago just for fun, and meeting some studios that I worked with, and it was my first time going so I had fun.
I met this producer from a company called Tonari. his name is Jarrett Martin. I think he’s actually the CEO of the company. He’s a really cool guy, really chill. We talked about what shows we’d want to get on. I love Yamato because Leji Matsumoto, to me, is the greatest creator, and I’d like to work on anything that he’s involved in. And I think two weeks after I got back from Japan he said, hey, by any chance would you like to work on Yamato? I’m like, you already know my answer to that.
And he was obviously talking about the newest remake, which is in production now. Did he then create a connection between you and the studio that’s doing it, Studio Mother?
I’d actually connected with some production assistants from Studio Mother before, but none of them worked on Yamato. They worked on some of the other shows, so it was a different experience this time.
Yeah, this is the first time Mother has taken on a Yamato production. It’s passed through several hands before, and the reason I think they have it is because their director, Naomichi Yamato, worked at Satelight, or maybe freelanced for Satelight, on 2205. If he’s connected to Studio Mother, that would explain why it traveled over to that new location. Now, I assume they can get all the animators they want in Japan. So what makes them interested in exploring other countries?
I’m going to speak from personal bias. I’ve seen everything for the Yamato remake up until 2205. I think that, honestly speaking, the other Yamato productions were very strong mid-tier productions in terms of how many impressive scenes there are overall. It’s a really correction-heavy show. There are some impressive scenes here and there, but overall I think it’s more trying to get the atmosphere and drawing quality at a really high level. So I think that honestly Mother trying to get freelancers and foreigners on this is more just experimentation.
They seem to have a little more of an open mind toward things because they don’t have to worry about being so incredibly over the top and going off the rails with crazy animation. But they also need to keep this drawing quality. The stuff that I had to work with, the cleanups and everything, were very conservative. It was really economical, and I think it’s almost a way to teach people how to do anime.
A lot of people go into the anime industry and they do what I like to call frame spamming. They use a lot of keyframes and it has to get neutered by the next people in the production line. Honestly speaking, this one was really conservative. I watched the finished product and it looked great. I thought everything looked really good.
The quality control is really high. But you’re right in terms of this being conservative overall, just in in the way they stage a scene and compose a frame, because it’s not a heavy action show. The action is all in in outer space in CG, and there’s not a lot of physical action. So that gives them a chance to balance it in favor of drawing quality because there are going to be fewer drawings per scene. Does that match your experience so far?
Yeah, I’d say so. It emphasizes what they already have. They want to strengthen their strengths instead of a broad variety of things they don’t really need.
Traditionally speaking, Yamato has always been like that. It’s been it’s been more about the space spectacle than fighting and so It requires a different approach to filmmaking. What specific episodes have you worked on? Is there a way we can track down your work and actually see the frames that you did?
When I was contacted, it was for Chapter 2. I want to say it was toward the end. I did the Second Key animation for Alphon shooting when he’s infiltrating the ship. It’s a pretty action-packed scene. I was the Second Key Animator for it. And the scene with Caroline Raiden speaking to two kids, Captain Kato’s child, and Jiro Shima.
It definitely wasn’t much, but it was fun, and I’d like to say that the scene I did Second Key for with Alphon was really impressive. I thought the effects were really fun. I’m not sure who did that. I need to find out who did the correction for Alphon himself, but it was a really nice drawing with a lot of detail.
Then you created the keyframes for them?
Specifically what I would do for that scene is Second Key, which in the industry is pretty much cleanup. It’s more about taking the corrections from the animation director, and the layout by the original layout artist, and matching them together and also drawing additional elements that haven’t been included. And you can add your own elements, obviously assuming that it’s not going to ruin the scene. Like there was an effect particle thing Alphon was shooting from his gun and there was a bunch of effects. I took some of them out and tried to create something more unique.
Not saying that the original layout wasn’t great, but I thought it could use a little bit of personal flair. I took some inspiration from another animator, a great animator named Chris or YEN BM. The way he does effects, particularly. I tried to incorporate that, and it came out really good in the final product, so I think Second Key is definitely a good way for people trying to get into the anime industry to learn how the pipeline works and to see what good layout is all about.
Okay, so Second Key is kind of a revisionist position where you take elements that were created separately and then you modify them and unify them. Is that a good description?
I wouldn’t go as far to say revisionist, but it’s like glorified cleanup because you have to follow the “Sakkan” (animation director) corrections. Sometimes there are “Enshutsu” (episode director) corrections and “Sou Sakkan” (chief director) corrections. You obviously must follow like 99 % of them. Sometimes there are details missing that are on the character sheet but not on the correction. Sometimes the “Sakkan” corrections are missing details that you have to include yourself, and this is where the drawing element comes in, being a part of the experience.
Doing Second Key is extremely important for learning the japanese pipeline, learning line control, understanding what good layout is, as well as improve drawing skill. You’re not just mindlessly tracing things. You’re pretty active in the way things go.
Yamato is a really strong production from what I’ve seen. Every single one of my corrections had really detailed drawings and it was just small things like lighting and shading and some small details that were missing that you’d have to go in and add.
I’m assuming that all of this goes back and forth electronically, is that correct? Because there wouldn’t be enough time to ship physical materials back and forth, so you must be receiving a lot of files.
Yeah, that stuff is quite a hassle, but I think that’s the way a lot of Japanese companies do it, they’ll move hundreds and hundreds of files. I think it’s very efficient. And honestly, I didn’t have too much trouble working in that manner.
Do they give you access to a server, or do they only send you the files that pertain to your assignment?
That’s the interesting part. They only send you stuff that pertains to you. But this will include overall things like storyboard and character size comps for everybody, just to get a sense of the entire scope of the thing. Second Key Animators won’t really have any say on things like backgrounds but they’ll still include it for things, like trying to get the atmosphere right and just keeping the overall comprehension as high as possible.
You’re obviously very fluent in English. I’m assuming that’s your first language. So how does the language barrier come into this?
I’m going to speak for other productions before I speak for my experience with Yamato. There aren’t many English-speaking PAs. A lot of the production assistants will use machine translations and it comes off incorrect at times. Some of the translations just don’t really work and I’ll just be like, okay… But I want to make more of an effort to learn the language so I can meet them on their terms if I’m going to work on their productions in their industry.
But Studio Tonari, the company that gave me the opportunity for Yamato, has a translator by the name of Masatoshi Hayashi. In my opinion, this is the way we should be doing things in the industry. Have someone that can speak both languages who can read and understand the storyboard, the materials, and whatever correction notes we need and give them back to me. That would be perfect, because that’s how I did it with Yamato. I had the people from Tonari handle any concern I had regarding Japanese, and there wasn’t too much. It wasn’t simple, but everything was there for me to see. It was a good experience.
But overall, I do want to see either a push from the animators to make more of a conscious effort to learn the language, or maybe possibly these studios being more open to hiring people like Hayashi and creating an easy middleman type of situation where everyone benefits.
I guess that would depend on how much overseas talent they need to get a production done. Because obviously hiring a translator brings another cost into the pile and you’ve got to make sure that it’s going to pay off. But that’s a very interesting process. Is Studio Tonari involved in Yamato as well, or are they just sort of a middleman for you?
I think they are. If you look at the credits for the episode, there’s someone next to me named Jarrett. This is the guy I met in Japan. He did Second Key as well, and I think he might have done something else for the episode, but I’m not sure. Usually this company will do stuff for a lot of productions, and this goes to my other comment about needing foreigners in the industry. I think it’s pretty much impossible to watch an episode of anime now and look at the key animation lists and not see a foreign name.
There’s a huge skill disparity in the industry and there are plenty of beginners who jump into the deep end too fast. I myself waited a long time and practiced with professionals a lot before even dipping my toes into the water, so that I don’t tilt the industry in a worse direction than it’s already heading. It used to be that they would go to foreigners who are extremely talented because of their niche abilities. It’s just that sometimes foreigners end up causing more trouble than help, which is why I think there should be some type of system in place to help new foreigners integrate into the industry without causing damage to productions.
That’s interesting. I do tend to notice more Korean names in credit lists, specifically because they’re rendered in English letters. And that does seem to be expanding. We also have the situation that many people know about, which is that animators in Japan are paid very low rates. Is that the case for a foreigner as well?
Definitely. The rates that they get and the cost of living for them obviously is different. I’m not gonna say that the pay was bad for Yamato, but for a foreigner, especially someone living in America, there’s no way you could live off this. I think it’s just not feasible. But for someone living in Japan, it might be doable if you’re taking a lot of shots, but you’re going to be busy. Realistically, it’s going to be a hard life. If it’s something that you’re really passionate about and it’s fulfilling, even then it’s still going to be a hassle because of retakes, or not being able to do something you want on a scene, or scene complexity.
I do think the rates for anime need to be higher. There’s no reason some studios should ever still be paying people 2500 yen apiece for layout. I think that’s absolutely ridiculous, but I these prices aren’t going to improve until overall the newer animators improve as well, because they’re the ones that’ll get the 2500. People who are extremely talented and really skilled negotiate for really high prices. I don’t think a lot of beginners are going to have the opportunity to negotiate until they’re able to fundamentally improve. Obviously the state of the industry is not good because this is the case.
If you go to any Western production, they’ll pay you incredible amounts of money for doing the same thing. And it makes you wonder, what’s going on? Like, what’s the difference here? Because one market is way bigger than the other. That’s just some food for thought that I think people should be more conscious about when they try to enter an industry like this. It’s going to have to be for passion rather than pay.
You’ve got to love it because it’s not going to love you back. You’ve told me about your work on Chapter Two. Are you getting new work from them now, or are you in a holding pattern?
I’m currently working for other productions that I can’t speak about because of NDAs, but once that clears up I’ll definitely let them know I’m ready, because I love Yamato and I’d like to keep working on it for sure. It’s definitely a possibility.
Good! Tell me how you actually found Yamato to begin with. What was your first Yamato experience?
This is what I was waiting for. As I said before, I respect Leiji Matsumoto a lot and I know he has a really complicated history with the series, but if people want to know about that they should go through your website. But I remember being five or six and discovering the Interstella 5555 animated movie, and the music videos were incredible. I was so enamored by it, specifically the character designs. Especially the way Matsumoto women look. They’re very unique. They have this sleekness in the design, it’s overwhelming. I remember thinking I’d love to make something like this. When I became 15 or 16 I started to watch more anime, some more surface-level stuff, then I came across Galaxy Express 999. And after I watched that, I was like, I need more.
Honestly, when I first watched the original Yamato series, I didn’t have the best time. It felt a little dated. But there was a lot of heart put into it. It was very special, but it wasn’t special enough for me. And I thought the fact that Yuki was the only female character led to like a kind of dry cast. Things like that. Small nitpicks.
Then two or three years later, around the start of the pandemic, I said, all right I gotta give it another shot because I saw the poster for Final Yamato and I remember thinking, this looks incredible. So I went through the movie route and…oh my god, when I got to Farewell I was like, there’s there’s no going back. This is one of the greatest things I’ve ever seen. That ending…I remember it made me cry at 3AM. It was one of those moments where I was like, I need to work on this in some capacity.
I had no idea that the remake was a thing, because in my opinion the advertising and marketing was really bad. I didn’t even hear about it until I went through my entire original Yamato journey and then watched the remake and was pleasantly surprised. I think the remake is THE way new people should try to get into the series. It’s very streamlined and there’s a great cast full of diverse characters and unique motivations. It’s very well done. It takes a fun, episodic adventure and turns into something more concrete and plot driven and I definitely value that a lot.
Wow, that’s quite a testimony. You’re in good company with that story. It very closely matches everything I’ve read about the people who banded together to create the remakes. They grew up watching the original and loved it for what it was, but also had the foresight to see what it could be. And once they got the opportunity to turn that into reality, we all got a huge gift. I’m glad we’re all here to see it, and I’m also glad to finally meet somebody who’s contributing to that gift.
It’s such an honor. I can’t say this enough, this is one of the things I’m most proud of in my life. I’m very happy and I’m so proud and I don’t think I know a single person besides you who understands the scope of this thing. It makes me feel small, in the best way possible. Any way to push this boulder is a way forward.
There are plenty of us who will appreciate what you’re doing once they get a chance to read this interview. Thank you very much for opening yourself up to this. I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much for having me, and I have a question for you: what’s your favorite Yamato entry?
For me it’s Yamato 2. Have you seen it?
Yeah, that’s the serialized version where let’s just say that ending is not there.
It’s a very different ending, but my first Yamato experience came through Star Blazers when it was on TV in 1979 and 1980. I had no idea what it came from, I just wanted something on TV that reminded me of Star Wars and this did it in the best way possible. It became like a daily religious experience to watch that show. It was on TV in the afternoons, right after school, five days a week. And so it was my first experience with serialized animation, you know, where you had to watch it in order and you you couldn’t miss an episode because you’d miss a chunk of story. It ignited me the same way it ignited you. It made me see what was possible and it made me want to make something like that.
I saw the first series and it was great, but then there was a noticeable jump in quality when it got to the second series. And knowing a little bit about TV seasons back then, I thought, oh, this must’ve been the next year, but it was actually four years later. And it reflected a lot of advancement in the technology and the size of the anime industry and the resources that they could bring to it. That caught my eye and was educational all by itself. But then to watch this story unfold over 26 episodes and reward you for the patience it took to get through it, it had my heart from that moment on. And that’s what makes it my favorite Yamato to this day.
That’s amazing. I’m really happy that you do everything you do for the community. It’s no understatement to say that you carry Yamato to the English-speaking community on your back. I’m super appreciative of that, and I’m sure everyone else is too. Thank you so much.
Aw, shucks. No charge.
Fantastic! Really interesting hearing about the processes and pay vs passion. Congrats on scoring that role, really surprised to hear the animation journeyed across the Pacific ocean! Well done 🙂
And thanks to you both for all your work!